On Nov. 30, the USC Center for the Political Future (CPF) hosted a watch party for the much anticipated showdown between California Governor Gavin Newsom and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, with a post-debate discussion with industry professionals. The shimmering guest list included Robert Hertzberg, the former California State Senate Majority Leader and former speaker of the California State Assembly; Kellie Hawkins, a Partner at Englander Knabe & Allen (EKA) and the former Chief Operating Officer of the National Health Foundation; Jeff Harris, the founder of JB Harris Consulting; and Effie Sanders, the Vice President of Civic Engagement and Economic Partnerships at USC.
The packed room was buzzing with excitement since its dinner reception. “The Great Red vs. Blue State Debate” was to be a rare but interesting faceoff with DeSantis trying to hold together a floundering presidential run and Newsom being knee deep in shadow campaign rumors.
The watch party was kicked off with a brief discussion on what to expect in the debate. They expressed some initial thoughts and hopefulness for the event. Hawkins said that viewers would be looking at two very different sides of the political spectrum. She added that viewers were fortunate to have the ability to do so and said that “this is the beauty of this country — agree to disagree.”
Harris echoed this sentiment: “This is a chance for something new and to reset. The level of political discourse in this country is at an all time low.” He added that he hoped to see discussions with evidence on the key issues Newsom and DeSantis divide on.
Hertzberg agreed that it would be a debate on very different ways of governing. Like Harris, Hertzberg highlighted the importance of evidence as well and hoped to see a civilized discourse. He also told the room that he knew Newsom “really well” and spoke with the governor’s communications director before the debate. He gave two reasons as to why Newsom wanted to do a public debate with DeSantis. First, “[Newsom] is pissed that members of his party are not fighting.” The second reason was that “he wants to be president.” Noting the impact Newsom’s recent trip to China had, Hertzberg added that “he loves the international stage. He will run.”
The last question for the guests before the debate started was why people were interested in watching it. Hawkins pointed to the debate’s rarity and how the stakes for them were different.
“Newsom is in a unique position because he has nothing to lose but putting forward his hopes and dreams. But it is still a campaign for DeSantis and he has to be more careful [with what he says],” Hawkins said.
Highlights from the first segment:
- The governors started taking jabs at each other right out of the gate. On the first issue of the increasing out-migration in California, DeSantis described Newsom as “slick and slippery” and someone who would “tell a blizzard of lies.”
- Newsom claimed he was here to “tell the truth about the Biden-Harris record” and to compare and contrast with DeSantis’ record. Pointing to Florida’s contentious legislation such as its abortion and book ban, Newsom fired back: “You and President Trump are really trying to light democracy on fire.” He also quickly followed up with a witty remark. “There is one thing that we have in common. Neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024,” Newsom said.
- DeSantis characterized California’s economic policy as “Biden-Harris agenda on steroids.” Newsom responded that DeSantis “just celebrated Bidenomics this week” with the $28 million dollars that went into Florida from the CHIPS and Science Act. Again, he insisted that he was “proud of the work Biden and Harris has done.”
- On the issue of unemployment rates, DeSantis accused Newsom as a “lockdown governor,” saying that while he kept Disney open and saved a lot of jobs, Newsom “had Disney closed inexplicably for a year.” But, Newsom seized the opportunity to transition to the topic of COVID-19. He listed Florida’s own lockdown policies and said to DeSantis: “Donald Trump laid you out on this. You followed science. You followed Fauci.” It was an attack on DeSantis’ statement made earlier this year at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library: “We refused to let our state descend into some type of ‘Faucian’ dystopia, where people’s rights were curtailed and their livelihoods were destroyed.”
During each ad break, the Center for the Political Future invited students to share their thoughts on each governor’s performance so far. One of the students said that “Newsom is charismatic, but I don’t think he is directly answering the questions as he should be doing.” A second viewer echoed his critique on the Democrat: “He needs to be addressing the graphics more directly. He needs to be able to cite those numbers from the top of his head.” Another student noticed that Sean Hannity, an anchor at FOX News and the moderator of this debate, was letting DeSantis interrupt Newsom more and that when they were both talking, the camera focused on DeSantis.
Considering how, during the pre-debate discussion, evidence was mentioned to be an important factor for the debate, one student said that “it’s a complete trainwreck because they can’t even agree on facts. The biggest winner is Donald Trump and the biggest loser is the American people.”
Highlights from the second segment:
- Newsom argued that DeSantis did not have the credibility to discuss immigration policy when he tricked and gave false promises to Texas migrants and threatened to invade Mexico.
- Newsom made another snap on DeSantis. “You are trolling folks and trying to find migrants to play political games. [You are] trying to get some news and attention, so you can out-Trump Trump. And by the way, how’s that going for you,” Newsom said. This is a reference to DeSantis falling behind Trump 41 points in polls in his own state.
- DeSantis repeated “that’s a lie” and “you are just making things up” six times when the Democrat pointed out that DeSantis supported amnesty, which has been fact-checked by The New York Times as misleading. Hannity hurriedly cued the second ad break after this exchange.
One student observed that the question on immigration policy was a “Kennedy segment” for DeSantis from the moderator. It was a reference to how President John F. Kennedy effectively used the medium of television to project a carefully constructed public image. Many others were worried about possible bias in the data presented by FOX News, such as the numbers on California’s unemployment and COVID-19 death rates. However, another student countered this concern: “These are numbers and it is what it is.” A third reaction pointed out that DeSantis “did not offer any specific policies.”
Highlights from the third segment:
- Newsom attacked DeSantis’ stance on gun control by jabbing at the newly signed HB 543, which has legalized carrying concealed weapons without permits in Florida. He said he agreed with Fred Guttenberg, the father of Parkland shooting victim Jaime Guttenberg, that “[DeSantis] is weak, pathetic and small.”
- On the topic of gun control, DeSantis circled back to blue state migration losses. “People are leaving California in droves largely because public safety has collapsed,” DeSantis said.
- After Newsom said that Jacksonville, Orlando and Tampa all had significantly higher murder rates, both governors once again started talking over each other with Hannity rushing them to move on. Their conversation became unintelligible.
- DeSantis argued that California has made it harder for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves but become easier on the felons, crediting it as another reason for people moving out of California.
- Newsom responded that it was “insulting” for DeSantis to “talk down on the great state of California and the great city of Los Angeles” when he was running for president.
During the third ad break, the watch party had more discussions on Hannity’s bias. A student noted that “every graphic paints Florida in a better light and they are way too broad.” One student said that the numbers were from “leftist websites” such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the issues brought up by DeSantis indeed exist in the city. Another student found characterizing CDC as a left-wing website disturbing.
Others argued that the questions never put DeSantis in a position where he needed to defend himself. An audience member was hoping that, when responding to California’s “higher crime rate,” Newsom could mention the fact that his state also has a higher population.
Another student followed up on the issue of perceived bias: “DeSantis does not let Newsom defend by asking him a follow up question.”
“Newsom is firm that gun control saves lives while DeSantis does not have a clear stance,” noted another viewer before the debate resumed.
Highlights from the fourth segment:
- On the issue of book ban, Newsom said that he did not like how DeSantis demeaned the LGBTQ community and the people he did not agree with. He also added that “this is a core value that distinguishes the values of my state and, frankly, the vast majority of Americans against the weaponization of education.”
- Hannity asked DeSantis whether the book ban was a state or local issue. When DeSantis answered that it was local, Hannity said “that’s all I want to know,” and quickly moved on.
- On the issue of abortion, Newsom did not directly answer if he would absolutely stick with any restrictions on abortion. Hannity kept pressing Newsom on whether he would support “a seven, eight, or nine month abortion ban if the mother’s life is not in jeopardy.”
- Newsom in turn asked DeSantis if he would sign a six week national ban. When DeSantis wouldn’t answer, Newsom told the audience directly that “he will sign that extreme six week national ban.”
- Hannity asked DeSantis to explain his “thinking behind [the abortion ban]” and whether it was for “religious reasons” or “scientific reasons.”
- Hannity asked for the governors’ responses to Biden’s “significant cognitive decline.” He wanted it to be a lighting round with one word answers. DeSantis claimed that Newsom secretly agreed as well and “that’s why [Newsom] is running a shadow campaign.” Newsom defended Biden by saying: “I will take Joe Biden at 100 versus Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age” and that the decrease in inflation and increase in jobs are “facts you don’t hear on FOX News.”
One of the students said “DeSantis is winning so far because everything is framed in his favor.” Another student commented on Newsom’s performance by saying that there was a missed opportunity for him to talk about clean air and emission policies. Others also said that it was better Newsom did not talk about public transportation because it is bad in LA.
Highlights from the fifth segment:
- The two governors talked over each other for a long time when Newsom attacked DeSantis on his previous threat to fine the Special Olympics $27 million dollars over vaccine mandate. DeSantis concluded by creating another soundbite — describing his opponent as a “liberal bully.”
- DeSantis pulled out the viral “poop map” of human feces found on the street in San Francisco. As the streets in San Francisco were lined with Chinese flags when President Xi visited the city earlier, DeSantis noted that they were willing to clean up the streets for “a communist dictator” but not for their own sake.
- Newsom stressed that “Hamas is a terrorist organization and they need to be eliminated” when DeSantis said that “Israel has every right to defend itself. Biden should not be knee capping them in any shape or form.”
- DeSantis pressed Newsom again on his recent trip to China, saying he “would not go to China and grovel in front of Xi like Gavin Newsom did.”
- Newsom asked when DeSantis would drop out and give Nikki Haley a shot at taking down Trump. He also insisted that he confronted Xi on human rights and fentanyl.
As the showdown concluded, the watch party dived into its post-debate discussion. The group first had a conversation on the statistics presented by FOX News throughout the debate. “You can say anything without context. Newsom fell into that trap without his own graphs and charts,” Harris said. Hawkins brought a different view on the data by saying that it would be a lot better if Newsom went beyond numbers and talked more about his governing philosophies. She said that he missed that opportunity.
Hertzberg noted that Newsom is intellectually curious and he wanted to understand different points of view. However, the California governor was in a tough position as there was also “tension with Biden and Harris.”
Referring to the many times when Newsom supported President Biden during the debate, Hertzberg said “he is out there to show he is for the president.” He also helped the group analyze some of the hesitations observed in his instincts while responding to questions. “He had both California and the president to protect, but DeSantis had less to consider,” Hertzberg said.
Kamy Akhavan, executive director of the CPF, shared that it was “hard to say there is any winner” and that “in each candidate’s mind, they probably felt like they did what they needed to do and that they were successful.” According to Akhavan, DeSantis needed to display presidential potential. “He’s speaking to a FOX News audience without any competitors on stage. For him, it was a moment to shine,” said Akhavan. He then pointed out that Newsom needed to come across as a defender of California values, such as pro-choice, pro-women and a supporter for Biden and his foreign immigration policies.
Akhavan said that DeSantis was able to use rhetoric and persuasion tactics that were effective with FOX audiences when talking about cultural and immigration issues. And Newsom performed his best when “he tried to be seen as the more civil of the two candidates and the champion of left-leaning values,” Akhavan said.
The next notable debate featuring DeSantis is the fourth Republican presidential debate in Alabama, where the governor will vie with Nikki Haley for the second place in polling.