Twenty-year-old rapper Mavi refers to his album “Let the Sun Talk” as “damn near an album in essay form,” a fitting description for a project from a junior in college. A biology major and psychology minor at Howard University, Mavi offers a blend of poetry and music unique to a scene of rap occupied by the likes of Earl Sweatshirt, MIKE, Medhane and more.
Dense with metaphors, double entendres, multisyllabic rhyme schemes, raw emotion and vulnerability, “Let the Sun Talk” listens much more like an anthology than a traditional rap album. Shortly after its release, Mavi appeared on Sweatshirt’s album “Feet of Clay” on the track “El Toro Combo Meal” to much acclaim from the online rap community.
Annenberg Media got the chance to catch up with Mavi at his first show in Los Angeles, held at a warehouse converted to an art gallery converted to a performance space for an audience of about 100.
Annenberg Media: How do you like Howard?
Mavi: I love Howard. I don’t really go there like that but I love it. I love D.C., I love the black community at Howard, I like the spiritual and Muslim influence on the D.C. culture, I like the pro-black influence on the D.C. culture. I just like a lot about D.C., it was a good fit for me as far as like first city away from home type s***. I’m taking a semester off right now but I’m tryna go back in the fall.
Annenberg Media: That’s something we wanted to know about, we wanted some insight about that balance as an artist as a college student. What’s that like for you?
Mavi: It got really hard. But it didn’t get really hard because I was doing any worse, it got hard because I was getting further in both the school progress and the rap progress. Both were requiring increases of work but only one was showing me immediate results as far as being able to change things about my circumstances and to be able to do stuff for myself and my family. So that’s the one I had to do right now.
Annenberg Media: We read online that you’re a biology major and a psychology minor. Can you tell us about balancing science and art? Cause those seem to be two very different things.
Mavi: No, they not. They not. They not. They not. They not. So basically, science and art is frameworks for humans to reflect the natural rhythms and flows of this world and to be able to explain them and to - and when I say reflect, I mean reflect in terms of like, to be a mold for which the impressions of this world is made in, and then a good replica is reproduced.
And so, the point of the bio and psych was a very artistic and kinda lofty pursuit. I wanted to answer the question of human consciousness and where it lives. Because the discipline of neuroscience done made so many more advancements since we last accepted or postulated theories of consciousness with any real seriousness and that’s basically what I was trynna do.
Annenberg Media: It was that same article that said you were trynna be a neuroscientist. Is that still the goal?
Mavi: Yeah, I want to. I want to really badly. I really want to.
Annenberg Media: How does that square with your career as a rapper? Do you plan to be both simultaneously?
Mavi: I don’t plan to be a rapper forever. I know when I’m leaving, I chose that when I started.
Annenberg Media: When are you leaving?
Mavi: That’s for me to know and you to guess.
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Annenberg Media: What was your favorite class that you took?
Mavi: Zulu. It’s either Zulu or cognitive psychology. Cognitive psychology taught me how to not have writer’s block. It taught me the nature of attention and distraction. Like how the responses to objects of attention are different from objects of distraction. It taught me a lot about how the brain works on a very functional level. Fuck with me. Good s***, man.
Annenberg Media: We’re two self-proclaimed artists in college. Do you have any advice as far as that goes, like what we could do to just continue growing as artists and students?
Mavi: What kind of growth do you want to do? My thing is, why do an artist want advice? I never wanted advice.
Annenberg Media: What about inspiration?
Mavi: Inspiration for what? I’m finna rap a concert, you know? Why would I say a thing that’s inspirational? What is the inspiration that a word can give you that a performance can’t give you? Why would you ask an artist - like not that you, this is not an attack on you, of course.
The thing is this. Last year, two years ago, I was on some s*** where it’s like I’m doing my s*** bro. I’m figuring out how to rap every day and I’m doing that s*** every day. Period. In whatever context.
I have to rap, bro. I rapped at college because I went to college and I love to rap. Not because it’s some kind of - cause, I have to rap like how I have to breathe and eat and everyday s***. The same way that I went to college and I picked up eating habits, I went to college and I picked up rapping habits. You’ve gotta reference your artistic self as a person with needs.
Annenberg Media: In speaking to that experience of getting to college and developing this rap style, did you find a community at Howard or in D.C. , in the DMV? In the past in interviews, you talked about facing limiting factors that weren’t educational, weren’t economic. What were some of those limiting factors that you experienced and how’d you overcome them?
Mavi: The limiting factors was more so on some Charlotte [N.C] s*** and it was more because Charlotte wasn’t really ready to do a scene yet when I was first learning how to rap. It wasn’t really ready to do a scene yet because it’s being ran by a lot of n****s who got zero results. That sh** - just all the wild goose chases n****s send you on as far as bad advice really set me on this dolo path type s***.
When I got to D.C., I definitely found community as far as learning how to be a live performer, you know things like that. These are all things that I developed in my D.C. time and that’s invaluable to my future as a man, as a performer, as a creative. A lot of that sh** came at Howard, a lot of it came outside of Howard, like in College Park[,Md.] and at The Factory. Crazy s***, it’s like all kinds of art happenings in the DMV, bro. That community is definitely, definitely a big part of my growth, for sure.
Annenberg Media: I wanna ask you about the internet. What role did that play in you distributing your music? You're talking about achieving a sense of your artistic self. Did the internet inform that in any sense? Does that inform the way you write or your style at all?
Mavi: Probably. Cause, it’s something that I’ve been using since I was a child. Maybe? I don’t know. I don’t think so like that. I try to keep my influences to people who move stuff, who touch analog and, you know, hardware of this s***. Literally and figuratively, you know?
But I will say the internet, as far as a distribution tool, is beautiful because...the question of inaccessibility is no longer a thing. We don’t have to bend and contort in crazy angles just in the quest of being famous. That’s not really a thing anymore and I appreciate that. Just cause you can reach people and talk to people directly. While people allow that to be such an identity-crisis-inducing thing, it allowed me another avenue to inject some humanity where it’s probably not none, but where everybody has an equal voice to put some at.
Annenberg Media: Has the internet led to avenues of collaboration?
Mavi: Hell yeah, for sure. The internet has definitely connected me to amazing people. The majority of people - that’s how they found me. SoundCloud is my home. I’ve been making music since I was 15, so it’s weird. Definitely the internet has been a thing that’s been connecting me to mad like-minded, young artists. It’s like a constant, flickering TV screen to just find s*** if you curate your experience there.
Annenberg Media: Let’s talk about those like-minded people. You’re definitely a prominent figure in this scene, this corner of rap that’s avant garde, it’s very different from the mainstream. We wanted to know how you, in your own words, would define it.
Mavi: I don’t know. Cause like, I don’t even like rapping in the style. My album, “Let the Sun Talk,” when I dropped it was a year old. I was just antsy to put it out to have it off of my lap. As far as the stylistics on it - what I’m doing now, I’m trying to take beautiful music and express myself over it and through it in a way that can create a cohesive message that people can dance and feel something about.
Annenberg Media: Let’s get a little more into that creative process. What was it like making “Let the Sun Talk?” I’ve heard that you write while walking. Can you give us some more insight into how you create, what inspires you?
Mavi: A lot of what inspires me is poetry and film and speeches and history and just trying to reconvert the messages, or refine the messages, or revise the messages, or reject the messages. I do do a lot of walking cause it sets the tempo and the flow. It makes writing the song a full-body experience.
Annenberg Media: Your Twitter handle is “@mavi4mayor.” Can you tell us a little bit about who’re you voting for? What kind of role does politics play in your life? “Let the Sun Talk” is a very politically-minded, forward-thinking album. Are you looking to enact any of this change or become involved?
Mavi: I see the United States government apparatus as mostly ineffectual and completely illegitimate.
Annenberg Media: Do you see any merit to changing the system from the inside? Like using political office to affect change from within, you know what I’m saying?
Mavi: Let’s do this. We all used to watch the cartoon where they had an episode where the character get’s swallowed and they go all through the mouth and the guts. From within that, as a captive, can you make the inside of a monster hospitable? Or you could just get out. And in getting out, you gone damn near strangle the monster. At the nicest form of getting out. That’s just that.
Annenberg Media: So are you not planning to vote?
Mavi: I never voted. [Laughs] Like I’m black, bro. Bro, listen. Democrat or Republican, 75 percent of like all the garbage dumps is in black neighborhoods. Whatever president. N****s will merk you, whatever president. The first time I was seeing n****s get merked was the Obama administration. You understand? This the n**** we all cried for, the super best hope for a presidential candidate as far as American, mainstream politics go. As far as like symbology. This s*** is fu[gazi], bro.
Annenberg Media: I can’t necessarily speak to everything you just said, but in terms of dumps and stuff, a lot of that has to do with municipal planning and city government stuff. So do you think there’s merit to getting those relocated, or opening new ones in other places? This is a huge issue going on right now, in terms of the intersection of environmental and social sustainability. Environmental justice is a huge movement, do you see any merit to that?
Mavi: The issue is this. We can raise a social flag and tell the government that it’s an environmental issue that’s affecting the population, but if there’s no economic sustainability in it - which, if you ever been to the hood, you see how much the city government believe in that area - what’s really finna happen?
We not the first people to be born and think s*** is wrong. We can’t give ourself that much credit. We come from n****s who been known it was wrong and knew of the ins and outs of how it was wrong better than we did cause they was the grandkids and kids and slaves themselves. So, I can’t be naive about getting excited about a presidential candidate.
Annenberg Media: I wanna talk about two different things that you bring up on the album. You talk about empowering women and lifting up females and you also have a line where you mention that you have a Casanova complex. I was wondering about balancing those two, can you speak to that?
Mavi: It just involves being a man and recognizing women as human, which is not the default option in this society as a young n****. As a romantic partner, addressing women as people who are wonderful and bring unique gifts and that can enhance my life in ways that I can never do alone because the important things about them and important ways that they exist that are cutting edge that sometimes I need some help catching up with.
But, that also involves knowing that women is fully-fledged humans with the ability to harm people and to exist as complex and multiple people. In just acknowledging that and having a positive sense of self, it's kind of shuffling card decks sometimes.
Annenberg Media: So you were in the studio yesterday with Earl Sweatshirt, right?
Mavi: Yesterday, in the studio?... Yes, I guess. I mean, I guess, bro. I was with my n**** yesterday, bro, I was cooling it with my n**** yesterday. I’m not jacking that, I was just cooling it yesterday, at the crib with my partner and them.
Annenberg Media: We wanted to ask a little bit about your relationship with Earl.
Mavi: Yeah, nah, I was with him, that’s my heart. I love that man. He’s the greatest. It’s like, I don’t even like talking about it because it’s hard to put into words outside of the language we got created between each other. Yeah, but like, that’s my guy though, that’s really my guy. That’s my cousin and my twin, for real.
Annenberg Media: The album opens with this monologue about what it means to be pro-black. We wanted to talk about, how do you feel, or in what ways do you think non-black people can engage with the music? When you make it, what intentions do you have in terms of who you want listening to it and what you want people getting from it?
Mavi: If you not black, just pull up and dance, bro. Bro, even if you not - the point of doing this sh** so black, right, is to emphasize black humanity. We got gold in our mouth and we sagging. We talk about money but we hate it but we had it, you know? It’s to show the multiplicity of man and for the world to extend that to black people and to implore black people to extend that to thyself.
So, when I make a song like “Self Love,” that’s really whittling away at humanity, it’s supposed to hit your bones cause you a human. And you 'posed to feel honored that like “holy s***, I am not black, but black art got me feeling a crazy way.”
Annenberg Media: You have this vision of your future, of your life. Can you paint a picture for us?
Mavi: Yeah. Imma die of old age with a lot of slaps on the book. Imma quit rapping one day and I’m not gonna be rapping no more. Imma raise my kids. Imma give my people and my family s*** in an organized way so that they can keep it and give it to they kids and family, you know? For sure.
Annenberg Media: What else is coming up for you this year? Do you have stuff on the way besides music? Do you have poetry?
Mavi: S***t, I might drop some poetry on n****s. I got a project, I got two projects, maybe three projects dropping this year, so yeah we dropping s***.
Annenberg Media: What can you tell us about those projects?
Mavi: They slapping. They slapping. They got good raps and good beats [laughs].
Annenberg Media: "Let the Sun Talk" has a certain structure to it. Are you gonna continue to play around with different acts or movements?
Mavi: Always. Always. Otherwise what are you doing? You’re not making music then if it don’t move. If it’s not living, breathing.
Annenberg Media: About that narrative structure on “Let the Sun Talk,” can you — for people who haven’t heard it who are gonna read this — can you just describe the narrative structure of the album?
Mavi: It’s damn near an album in essay form. Just put your ear wide open and just listen with your ears and then weird s*** gonna start happening with your chest. [Laughs] That’s how it sound, really.
Annenberg Media: We really appreciate you taking your time and talking to us. Thank you, bro. Thank you very much.
Mavi: This was such a fun interview. Please enjoy this show. We finna turn up. It’s gonna be a great night.